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1) "I favour
the congestion charge and associated TIF bid, but in a PR war opponents
will successfully claim that influential promoters will be still using
their cars and creating a 2-tier transport system. What personal firm
transport pledges will council members, councillors , and business
leaders make to consistently use public transport post c/charge, and
lead by example. Otherwise the scheme is probably unsellable should a
referendum situation arise."
(RW) They won’t give any such
pledge. Indeed, a new car park is being planned for the city
centre for use by councillors and senior council officials, at huge
public expense. Any referendum will
almost certainly reject the TIF bid and the congestion
charge. It is important therefore that we start campaigning
now for a new and greener alternative.
(AF) As I said on the night, I have a bike and a car, but mostly I use public transport and I try to encourage others to make responsible transport choices.
2) To those
against the congestion charge- what practical moves do you propose to
improve public transport and cycle access in Manchester?
(RW) First
and foremost we need a publicly owned bus company. The
current system is geared towards maximising profit. They do
this by oversupplying the profitable routes and neglecting the less
profitable ones. Although this is highly lucrative for the
shareholders and executives (Stagecoach for example makes over 20%
profit on around £70million p.a. turnover) it is certainly not the way
to manage a fully integrated user-friendly public transport system.
Where would the money come from to set this up? Central
government has the funds, we should demand that in the interest of
climate stability, they allocate them to public transport (without any
strings.) Where will the government get the money?
We already know that Alistair Darling intends to relax the ‘golden
rule’ on public sector borrowing in response to the impending recession
– what better way to invest in the future than by investing in public
transport. All that is needed is for the government to end
its obsession with private enterprise and the market, and that will
only happen if we can generate mass political pressure.
Secondly,
fares should be reduced to zero, with the service funded from taxation
rather than through ticket sales (just as education, health and
‘defence’ are funded through taxation). As a rough estimate,
this would add about £60 p.a. to the average household council tax bill
(probably less). Google ‘Hasselt’ for a practical example of
how this can work.
Thirdly,
once these measures are in place, car drivers should be given notice
(say 3 years) that the city centre (bordered by Trinity Way, the
Mancunian Way and Great Ancoats Street) will be permanently closed to
private motor cars (perhaps with an exception for electric disabled
vehicles). We could then transform the city centre into a
totally cycle-and-pedestrian-friendly green space.
Fourthly,
as the advantages become apparent, and as the public transport system
expands, the ‘car free zone’ should itself be expanded outwards
throughout the city. Drivers would be again be given plenty
of notice that this is going to happen. Cllr
Fender claimed on Thursday that this is ‘pie in the sky’. It is
not. What is pie in the sky is expecting the TIF to be
approved in a referendum. What is also pie in the sky is
expecting the biosphere to survive without radical, profound and urgent
changes in the way we run our cities.
(AF) N/A
3) What
happens if the congestion charge (which will be run by a private, for
profit company no doubt) doesn't raise sufficient funds to pay off the
amount borrowed?
(RW) We will repay it out of taxation, as we
do with PFI hospitals. You can be sure that a
very high proportion of the funds will be siphoned off as profit at
every stage in the process – both directly, to the contractors who will
build the gantries and the new tram lines, and indirectly, to the
private bus and tram operators who will benefit from the new
infrastructure. And don’t forget, the private operators have no
intention to reduce fares under this TIF proposal, nor are they under
any obligation to do so.
(AF) The TIF bid negotiations between AGMA/GMPTA/E and DfT/Treasury have been very tough and the outcome is based on a rigorous appraisal of the costs and risks, together with adequate contingency. It is all our interests to ensure that the scheme covers its costs.
4) Should
there be concessions for public sector workers in “essential” services
as a par of the argument to convince people about congestion charging?
(RW) However you try to dress it up, people will not be
convinced, because the proposal is fundamentally flawed. It
will not end congestion and it will not significantly reduce emissions
(both Clean Air Now and Cllr Fender admitted as much on Thursday.)
(AF) The consultation is being carried out on the basis that low paid workers whose workplace is inside the M60 should be eligible for a discount of up to 20%. If there are sound transport related arguments in favour of extending this concession to other groups of workers, I haven’t heard them yet and they would be best made as responses to the consultation.
5) How much
of the government grant will be spent on the mechanisms of collecting
the congestion charge/ It is a large proportion, is it not?
So is it the case that the majority of the public transport
improvements must be paid by a (shrinking) number of motorists on the
roads?
If we spent the same money in a more constructive way (e.g. Follow
Roy's suggestions) could we not give motorists a more attractive reason
to get out of their cars?
(RW)
At least £300m will be wasted on building the infrastructure to collect
the charge – followed by an undisclosed (but doubtless very high)
annual expenditure on administering it. This is a scandalous
waste of public money.
The reliance on motorists to fund public transport improvements is self
defeating. We want to get people out of cars AND massively
improve public transport. Under this TIF scheme we can’t do
both.
(AF) The proportion of the capital grant to be spent on the congestion charging scheme infrastructure is 12.5% of the total. This is not a ‘large’ proportion. The bulk of the costs of Roy’s alternative (free fares) would be year on year revenue funding.
6) As I understand it,
our options as a city will be either to accept the TIF bid and go for
it, or to reject it. We do not have the option to reject the Congestion
Charge element but accept £1.5bn. Isn't that the case?
(RW) Yes it is correct, under the current
proposal. But what we don’t
have to do is meekly accept the government’s take it or leave it
approach. We could put up a fight. There is no law of nature
that says you can only improve public transport if you impose a
congestion charge. It is a political decision, and political
decisions can be changed. How do we change them? By
waging a political struggle, by mobilising large numbers of people in a
mass movement of protest. That is what we now need to
do. Come to the inaugural meeting of the Campaign for Free
Public Transport at 7.15pm on Thursday 25th
September in the Friends Meeting House. For more information,
email roywilkes59@talktalk.net
(AF) There is no option to ‘reject the Congestion Charge element but accept the £1.5bn’. As has been said a number of times, the congestion charge element is an integral part of the TIF bid. Without it the TIF bid collapses back to the conventional (and much smaller) funding mechanisms.
And why shouldn't car
drivers wanting to drive in at peak hours in 2013 when public
transports options have improved so much have to pay to pollute?
(RW)
Surely the most important thing is to stop the
emissions, not to allow people to ‘pay to pollute.’ Cars
are not only a means of transport, they are above all expressions of
individual
status. Rich people in particular will continue to
use cars instead of buses or trams because to do so confers
status. The only equitable way around this dilemma is to ban
their use completely – initially in the city centre and then in other
areas. Because otherwise we are saying that it’s ok for the
rich to cause climate catastrophe as long as they pay to do so, and I
don’t think it is ok.
(AF) If you mean attaching goods or freight wagons to passenger trains, this simply wouldn’t work. It would be very complicated to operate and slow things down so much as to make the trains very unattractive. If you mean running more freight trains, this should be possible overnight when the railways are less busy. However, decisions to run freight trains and send goods by barge on the canals are commercial, not ones which local authorities have much influence over.
7) Why
aren't the trains used to transport goods, also the canals?
(RW)
The main reason is profit. Roads are maintained entirely at
the public expense, railways less so. Expenditure on roads
has always been described as ‘public investment’, that on railways as
‘subsidy’. Motor manufacturers, road haulage companies and
oil companies want to keep it that way, and they lobby hard to maintain
this status quo.
Before
WW2 lorries were restricted to a maximum radius of 50 miles (basically
to and from railway stations.) We need to reintroduce similar
regulations now. Of course, this will necessitate shifting
resources from road building and maintenance into (preferably publicly
owned) railways. And
by expanding train, bus, coach (and indeed canal) services, we could
provide alternative employment for those currently employed in road haulage.
To Rob Adlard
A) What
evidence do you have that the money raised after 30 years will go to
Central Govn?
B) Tory
Think tank the Adam Smith Institute is in favour of road pricing.
Aren't you just using this to have a cheap shot at Labour?
C) Without
the congestion charge 'element' of the TIF how exactly do Manchester
Conservatives propose we should fund green transport, assuming they're
not in favour of doing it via general taxation?
To Andrew Fender
A) Given
that the metrolink expansion has already been delayed due to rising
costs, and given that the cost of building materials are constantly
increasing due to industrialisation in the developing world, how
certain are the council that when work begins they will be able to
fully fund the current plans?
(AF) No-one could guarantee that the current plans will be capable of being fully funded in all circumstances. However, the capability and capacity of GMPTE is being increased to ensure that organisationally it will be capable of delivering such a major investment programme on time and to budget. The DfT has indicated that they will require evidence of this before the next stage in the approval process.